[General] Therion Waris too unfair

LovelyBear

come on.. what dovo has against B....

among all 3 nation only B major attackers raise the bosses morale (faster total annihilation)

V hasit best cuz they can just bulwark and steal the morale of the boss => minimize most of its damage.

and M at least dont feed morale to the boss.

please dont suggest B to use strafe hero or our pitiful warlocks (we B may have  2 book for pondon, jugaregon at best, but still wont be as good as M)

proof?

1 minute into the game and a V got 4% on the bird, th best B players got ZERO % please balance the event.


It is hard to not get sour of the recent changes, from the new RP heroes, nation shift, and now this, why is it always B who the disadvantage ? I am not eve talking about which nation is the strongest, I am just saying why B keep on getting nerf
and B's strongest players r not that far behind from V, if anything B players have better cloaks.
just be honest dovo, does this have anything to do with b being the free to play nation ?

in s 19, 1 min into the event
a V got 4%on the boss while the best b got 0 %. and it is B who cleared the higher maps, not V.

sorry, but i am enraged
on that note dovo, u will never get another penny from me, that last 990 dcoin is the last i will ever buy from u, and my friends, u treat us B like trash

setherot

Please take another look at the forum rules, if you have a problem understanding them pls send me a PM and i will help to explain it to you.  Wether or not your browser will let you edit does not let you get away with quardruple postings.  I do recommend chrome while using the forums and warflow in general.

B has never gotten a nerf, no nation has.

Several options have been given out to players, a 2 dancer bulwark karma, draco has been recommened.  If you choose not to train the heros that is your choice, every nation has had to train heros for this event, and yes i know M has to train less.

As well we have submitted some suggested changes to dovo in regards to this event and hope to hear back from them soon.  

You might feel at a disadvantage in B, if you do well there is the option of a nation swap.

hanwudi

u treat us B like trash
LovelyBear Posted at 2/20/2012 20:27

If Dovo treat B like trash, Dovo won't even make purple weapons available to be farmed from lubon and ryeshock1&2 or even nation1/2/3 in all B/V/M maps which Bel need so much for their machines. Whereas Malscinia has to pay dearly for lvl80 purple books from Daily Quest for their warlocks, of course purple books are avail in HA later on but even better ORANGE WEAPONS are there as well. And Voluprus purple horse, how many of you got that easily without paying or EVEN WHEN PAYING? You want fairness in everything then let every nation's item be receive the same way, weapon from daily quest too, I see how you guys survive!

orcishant

3# hanwudi

Please, you think that purple weapons make it easy for B nation?  Dont forget you can also farm the purple armours from the same areas........where can I find those farmable purple hats again !!!!!!

As for the real topic of therion wars,  I agree with Seth that the post isn't presented very well but I think that most B nation are feeling the same way as the OP.

2 x Dancer (When was the last time you used a Dancer as B nation)
Bulwark, ok this is much easier and is used.
Draco, the only one in the lineup that B nation regularly use.
Daunt, again another hero that needs training.

Not to mention that there are limited spots for heros so we would need hire and fire heros every war.

And the one point that everyone seems to be missing and probably the most important, how many Parries can Draco take !!!!!!!  I have Draco at 120/120  12-IV armour and still lose 9k of the 13k troops I have.  Draco's damage is also massively affected by troop loss.

I totally agree with the OP that this event is total garbage for B nation, but hey hang tight as the big wheel is coming around.

V got Seema
M got this event
B next?  

hanwudi

3# hanwudi
Please, you think that purple weapons make it easy for B nation?  Dont forget you can also farm the purple armours from the same areas........where can I find those farmable purple hats again !!!!!!
orcishant Posted at 2/21/2012 03:20

Thats why I said "You want fairness in everything then let every nation's item be receive the same way"

bb0y

The item balance and drop is actually very well controlled by Dovogame.  There is a reason why books are harder to get.  M nation would be way to powerful early in the game if every Tom, Dick, and Harry could get them.  Hats are difficult to get because if all of V nation had purple hats, M nation would lose its hand of power.  I actually feel B nation can be the strongest nation if played correctly.  Albeit this only will be late game when you can get more of the non RP heroes to add to your RP lineup.

There is a reason why Dovogame has nation choices, they are all different strengths for a reason.

For a competitive gaming environment you must have some unbalanced features and strength and weaknesses actually encourage the competitive atmosphere.  I suggest you either switch nations or learn to compensate for your problems in another way.

These overpowered discussions have really hurt this forum, not only will you be ostracized for making a OP thread, the moderators will target you and give you negative comments.

VN4L

Barracuda

@Lovelybear  all nations can use bulwark and morale steal V does get bulwark first though maybe try a couple dancers with shielder if you don't have bulwark yet.

@setherot you can't use draco against dragon or any other attack hero you'll never stand a chance.

stefanobet

I strongly agree with you....well....at least with the title: "Therion Waris too unfair"

All players from western and central europe and south africa (and all the other countries in the same time zone) and even eastern europe are "banned" from the event. How do you think ppl get up at 4-5  am to play? all these players can't get the drops (unfarmable purple totem, seldom PR dropped devil flakes, i see even purple books!!!).

This is the real unfairness

Dragity

I actually would prefer it if it was during 4am-5am than noon to 1pm my time heh.

At the very least I can choose to wake up for an hour to do it (like MWs) instead of not being able to participate most of the time due to it happening during work.

beni27272727272

yes, it is unfair for B but come on B nation. We need to have some considerations. we have the easiest way to get our weapons and yeah we just have to get to those highest NPCs so that we can get our dream hero. I think that sooner or later, dovo will make a good warlock for B

Jaosn

heh.. B.. this B that... give me a break.. B waxes M nation hands down.. I'm level 130.. and get creamed by lvl 120 players.. why.. because weapon damage is by far more powerful then book damage... you take a purple weapon and purple armor, and max them... then take a purple book, and purple hat and max them.. have the best damage hero from M fight draco.. even lucam.. who gets 3x damage on single target.. he will get slaughtered.. why because we miss like crazy.. and even we dont miss we lose.. we can't crit.. I even gave B the advantage by going in dodge form so draco can miss.. still got wasted.. our mages are like wet paper bags against B.. its not even a discussion..only someone with no experience in this game would argue

Another point.. your 480k RP hero Bulls is freaking insane...even now.. he hits for about 1200 5x to max armors..and never misses.. thats better damage then any M hero period.. and you guys dont even have max hats.. its to damn expensive..

stoping saying B is so weak.. you dont know what your talking about..

Doccy

11# Jaosn

You seriously need to look at your gear my friend,  I have a 120/120 Draco + 140 Str with a maxed nations weapon.  We have a 130 M on our server and when I hit him with Draco I am lucky to do 1.5k damage.
He has 14k troops so it takes some rounds, yet his Lucam hits me for 4k and thats with a 11-V red hat.

May I suggest better armours or a defence totem.

PS

M>V>B>M

Jimee49

12# Doccy
I disagree.

For a level 120 to beat 130, its impossible and should not happen. But this happened because its M nation, by far the most expensive and weakest nation to be in.
We just got another drop battle event and I've seen people saying, "its good for everyone." That is so wrong...B players can get purple att totem while M player? Not even a *red ones*. Going to have to hit 10 stars daily. Yeah it's easy as long as you got the dough.

Most vip 4 below M players have red books, and those are nothing. Even purple books barely scratches.

Prove me wrong, for a lower level to beat a higher level...only M nation takes the lose. Show me a level 130 B loses to 120 M.

See who whines when draco miss 3 times in a row or when draco can't critical. I'm surprised that not much M nation stand up to say something...B should be grateful.

You don't feel the frustration because B = 100% nation. At least you can pick up a bat and hit. M? It's like flipping a coin every time you fight.

http://s1.wf.dovogame.com/login?fid=132991530070296279

Above - another result of a lev 120 beating 130...3 purple armors, red strat totem, red def totem - both max, and 2 12-x purple books on ghearlon + vip6 + triple stats...


Aside from all that. I do believe therion war seems unfair to B. But so what? M nation seems the most unfair nation ever for such a long period of time. It's time to split the weigh. For M nation here my philosophy: You can't play if you don't pay, that is, playing good.

morph

many ppl seem to also forget that armor is the cheapest item to upgrade in the game, not to mention you can farm armors earlier than other def. Hats are also hard to get so pls stop whinning abt B getting good offense items when you can also farm and upgrade defence easily

#2

V nation also benefit from having easy access to weapons why all the hate against B lol

Dragity

I don't know why people seem to think that this will balance out nations assuming that one nation is seriously underpowered compared to the other nations (there are a lot of factors and scenarios and I'm not commenting on that for this post as it is rather irrelevant to what I'm trying to get across) as only the top 9 or 10 players will get anything decent from this event (ie silver and items, and only the top 1/2 players will get orange frags which are super rare) while there are over a hundred players (at least on the merged servers) that participate in the battles. Yes it'll help gear up one nation a little bit faster if the mechanics of the event isn't balanced but it only really affects the top few players and mainly those that spend a bit of gold as it seems like everyone is reducing their cds a bit to get a rank and even then most of the purple stuff isn't too rare, especially once you get to hero arena and beyond, so in most cases its just the orange frags which will be a significant boon and only 1 or 2 players get that.

So who usually gets the top place in this event? The strongest player on the server or if its seriously skewed towards favoring one nation then assuming the top players of each nation are similar in strength then it'll go to the strongest player in that nation. However how does that affect the balance of the three nations? The effect is very minimal as it's just a very tiny portion of the player base and yes it'll trickle down but the effect it has is minimal (and not a good source of balance even if the effects were more significant). If anything it'll mainly affect the battles between the top players on that server.

This doesn't really affect me much as Mae is the strongest player on this server merge and even if this event was completely balanced (probably by doing an aoe attack that deals skill/common/strat damage every turn and has equal fail rates for all attacks, not sure if that's really balanced as there are a lot more factors but I just thought of that off the top of my head) it still wouldn't affect me cause Mae would still rank at first place and rightly so with her strength.

The bigger problem really is how the majority of the participants gets nothing from this event (well they do get something but it is extremely insignificant compared to the players that get ranked) and this is where I think it's really unfair as this just makes the stronger players (in general) stronger. This isn't a 1 time event where the impact it has won't be that huge but it happens every 4 days just like MWs, however during MWs even the weaker players can still come out with similar earnings to the top dogs of the server (assuming the same level).

Although I can understand why they made the event like this, its to help them generate more gold usage through the use of using up honor/gold to boost yourself and gold to reduce the CD. I just hope that they modify it somewhat to decrease the gap from the top players to the weaker ones (the measly amount of silver/honor/rp that you get from attacking them is not worth mentioning at the moment).

Tranquility

http://s1.wf.dovogame.com/login?fid=132991530070296279

Above - another result of a lev 120 beating 130...3 purple armors, red strat totem, red def totem - both max, and 2 12-x purple books on ghearlon + vip6 + triple stats...
Jimee49 Posted at 2/22/2012 05:15

I don't know how strong Lv130 M's are. I also don't know who the players shown in that replay are.

However, I don't buy the assertion that Lv120 B's are stronger than Lv130 M's. No properly developed Lv130 account should be weaker than a Lv120 account under normal circumstances. Those 10 levels of techs, equipment upgrades, and force levels are a massive advantage for any nation.

How strong is that B player in your replay? He has a trained-up Licien already. That is as strong a Lv120 as you're ever going to find, because he is already strong enough to advance to Lv130. His troop counts (in comparison to my own) would suggest that he has excellent gear as well, probably no worse than those of the M player.

Meanwhile, that Lv130 M player doesn't have any maxed heroes aside from the Lv127 Sungin. His heroes are at various levels... 104, 111, 117, etc. He probably cleared not too long ago and his heroes are still being reincarnated. That would in turn suggest his techs are not maxed yet. You already mentioned his gear is only 12-X, the same as that of a Lv120. Why should I expect this Lv130 (in name only) to win?

If you want to make a case that M is weaker than B, fine. However, making a patently false statement that Lv130 M players are weaker than Lv120 B players is not the way to do it. Don't sell your own nation's players short. There are a lot of strong M players around.

DeadMan

http://s1.wf.dovogame.com/login?fid=132991530070296279

Above - another result of a lev 120 beating 130...3 purple armors, red strat totem, red def totem - both max, and 2 12-x purple books on ghearlon + vip6 + triple stats...
Jimee49 Posted at 2/22/2012 06:15

This makes me laugh.
Only 1 of his heroes is above 120.
I don't know what his techs are so can't really comment on that.
You mention only 2 12-X purple books, which is the 120 max.
You mention he has 3 purple armours, yet fail to mention what they're upgraded to.
Everyone has triple stats. The values however vary greatly.
Just because the number by his name says 130 it doesn't really mean that much.
The attacker also has the advantage.

You know nothing about that 120, which just fyi could go to 130 whenever he chooses (it's me by the way).

Now, maybe I should enlighten you on some of the stuff I was using in that battle.

Max purple attack totem with +255 atk and common Damage +5% from talents
Max red strat def totem
Max red troop totem
3 12-X purple weapons
9-I purple hat, 7-IX purple hat, 8-III red hat, 2 8-I red hats
all stats on all heroes used +94 or higher

That's basically all relevant info. As you can see, I'm not just an average 120.

Tranquility

17# DeadMan

em.. jinx?

(3 words)

Jimee49

17# DeadMan
If this makes you laugh, will it make me laugh even more?

First of all, 4/5 of his heroes are above 110's thats about the same force or roughly more than level 120 cap heroes. Sungin was the higher one.

yeah his books are 120's but how bout your hats? Level 8-9's?

His armors are ranked: 2700 2700 2350 2350 2050

2 12-x purple , 2 12-x red, and 1 11-x red.

You just beat someone with 4 12-x armors while your hats are only level 8-9. Is that why you laugh?

Conversely, do you believe a M player with level 8-9 armors red/purple is able to beat level 12 hats B player?


@Tranquility #16

Please, I only like to look at statistics. In the past, I've post a level 130 B player courpsemourn with level 60 heroes beating level 120 M players...Then, people suggest that lev 60 "doesn't mean he's weak, forces are similar to that of level 120's." I guess B players like to find ways to back themselves up.

Yes, ghearlon's heroes are roughly 110-120's, but his forces/hero will adds up to be higher than level 120 cap TC players.

Also, im basing my facts on stats. As you can see above, dme's hats are about 70% to maximum potential while ghearlon barely got any room to grow.

It will be a total domination if dme's hats are the same level as ghearlon's armor.

I'm not trying to sell my nation lol. I'm here to stop the whining of therion war by showing some stats of M nation's flaws.

Doccy

19# Jimee49

Jimee

I am not an expert but watching that fight a few more times I picked up the following points:

DME's thorn hit 4/5 first attempt (don't happen often)  In one round this lost the M guy about 8k+ troops alone.  M's thorn seemed to have the night off.

Also Lucam was doing a sterling job stunning  DME's thorns every round ( seeing as he had hit 4 already his job was done anyways )

I would love to see a reutrn fight with your friend putting Lucam in a better position and attacking first.

Mae_Young

M nation needs some love devs!!!
everyone abuse us from the op nations , and were the sweeeetest of any nation  

blarg

@ Dragity post 15 ... I agree with ya 100% ... as I've said, I can spend 1 second levying, and come out of it-
A: saving 2 hours, and
B: a *lot* further ahead in silver compared to the bit I get from going clickclickclickclick for 2 hrs :p

Jimee49

20# Doccy
Just compare the damage dealt only. And you can see who's the winner.

ghearlon's heroes' forces are 15-V minimum / Sungin 16-IV

dme - max force at lev 120 = 15-I

ghearlon saint fox red strat totem: +410 and talent level 7 +5%
             tech maxxed at lev 130.
             max red def totem: 600 def + talent level 2
             max red troops totem

dme - purple att totem / talent +5%
          tech maxxed at 120
          red strat def totem max

ghearlon - 4 max armors +1 11-X   2 purp 12-x and 2 red 12-x

dme - level 8-9 red/purp hats.

ghearlon heroes' stats:  int max, 110+ for secondaries

dme - 94+ minimum


The above comparison is simple and easy.
ghearlon basically has no more room to improve except getting his heroes to 130 + forge values + 10 ints and books to 13-X.
Dme can raise his hats by 5 levels more (500-600 strat def) hit level 130 + 10 levels of techs + 15 levels of forces on heroes + weapons to 13-X + 10 str and forge values.

Doccy if you are going to counter-example me, show me a fight where M nation player uses level 9 armors to defeat the same level of B player or (10 levels higher) with hats level 12.

morph

23# Jimee49
Why are you crying about B when M have a good time against V targets? Show me a fight of a comparable V target beating M consistently. Use that B against that V. I dont get why M have this mentality that they should beat all nations. Going by your stupid logic, M should beat V+B while B should beat no nation? What crap is this

Ur books are expensive but B have to keep degrading and upgrading stuff which involves alot of silver loss. B has orange against purple armors which are the cheapest item to upgrade? So ur saying M should have purple/orange books against red hats? Why dont dovo let us farm purple hats earlier? You can also get purp def totem from prs later while we have to pray for gold box luck. not to mention red def totem is basically everywhere now. Dont forget u also get red strat att totem in later npc maps so what are you complaining abt? Stop crying

Jimee49

24# morph
hah take a look at where you are posting sir. This is under "therion war is too unfair" post...so who is crying in the beginning.

Plus, I am using a solid tone to simply compare and contrast level/strength and why therion war is ok like this, where did you see me crying? Are you spying on me?

B nation can get purple att totem from battle event. Red att totem from battle event + nation2 PR.
M? not even red strategy totem is available if you don't spent gold.

Purple weapons are obtainable with mcu's what about purple books? Maybe you will cry when you spend like $300-500 just to play and match with other nation.

Please think twice before you post, its very illogical.

morph

25# Jimee49
rofl, if you admit TW is unfair to B and favourable against M, then why are you crying about B beating M?

If a top gear max B player cant beat a Mal player who has average equip, that would be a total joke. Havnt you heard about B players struggling to fight V? Dont you know that draco take extra dmg from strat att and reduced dmg from strat atts? Dont you know lucam takes extra dmg against common attack? Why should M beat B in this case? Ur logic is flawed

And stop hating against farmable purple weapons. All nations benefit from farmable weapons. V can use them. M can use them. Why are you crying?

Tranquility

@Jimee49 DME has a maxed lava phoenix and a maxed red strategy defense totem, with pretty respectable 3-stat boosts on all heroes. Get it through your head that this is not normal. DME is a freak of warflow, much like those Lv40 people passing Monhue or Lv60 people passing Allies.

If you really don't know how to beat him, I'll tell you. Get your Lv130 to max all his crap, counter the lava phoenix with a maxed defense totem, counter the maxed red strat def totem with a maxed purple strat attack totem, sic Lucam on his Draco, train a Lv130 Licien to counter his Lv120 Licien. Not only will you win, but I guarantee you will stomp him into dust. Where are you going to get that gear? I have no clue. Go spend gold?

I don't have DME's equipment or stats either and probably will not for the foreseeable future. You don't see me having problems, much less complain about an entire nation on forum. *** Make do with what you have! *** If you're not going to spend the gold, expect things to be more difficult. Taking exceptional cases and using them as support for making blanket statements about entire nations is ridiculous and insulting to everyone. Most "normal" B players take one look at your example and recognize they will never be able to do what DME does. Most "normal" M players would probably recognize that it is silly to suggest they lose a lot to low level players and wonder if it is you who does not know how to play.

This entire "M is weak" argument you introduced under the guise of justifying M's success in the Therion is a red herring as well. B is only sucking because 4 slots are occupied for tying up the dragon and the remainder physical hero gets parried to death. M is dominating the ranks (not debatable) so far because their normal set of heroes are not affected by this issue. What does this have to do with nation strength? This is a flaw of the event. The problem will resolve itself as soon as B hires skill heroes and the weak M players won't be able to place in the rankings any more. Granted it'll take a few months, but I fully expect M to fall behind due to complacency.

setherot

anyways....... gonna close this thread its getting out of hand.  People play nice, less telling others to stop whining.  

The admin has responded to my suggestion and he is talking to the game designer about them.  hoping to hear more back from him next week about it.  Until than M enjoy our time at the top, Ive no doubt that given time things will change.  wether it be from dovo or from the players themselves.